Conflicts with Hidden Stages

[fatfredfreak]

Many thanks to both adisonbr and evf for their support and words of encouragement while dealing with my cache that the NY Admin won't list for proximity issues.

I now have a second cache that a NY volunteer continues to insist is "incomplete" and additionally has made some obscure reference to podcache.com. This is after repeated attempts to get this (interesting/historical) cache listed.

Multiple efforts to propitiate the admin of either cache has resulted in conflicting info and rude behavior from the NY Admin. This experience has COMPLETELY drained me of any desire to hide anymore caches. I'm tempted to pitch the GPS unit in the East River out of protest...but I've recently bought mapping software for an upcoming trip.

I suppose there are 49 other states in the union, and the world of geocaching is wide. Perhaps I will have better luck outside of NY, where there are far more reasonable folks overseeing the administration.

Thanks, once again, to addisonbr and evf. While I admit that I'm "taking my marbles and going home", I don't want my ire to be mis-directed: the geocaching community has been really cool, but the admin is such a huge pain in the neck that it is not worth my effort to be an active participant under his/her mis-guided and offensive jurisdiction. I look forward to seeking out other people's caches in the city, but me, my caches, and the accompanying podcasts are out of here.

[addisonbr]

Aw, man, this is a real bummer. I think I know where the confusion is.

is a popular site that promotes both podcasts about geocaching, and podcaching, which is a variation on geocaching that uses audio clues to find the hidden containers.

The folks at podcacher.com pioneered the World Wide Flash Mob (WWFM) geocaching event, an event that combines with geocaching. In this case, the event that everyone gathers "suddenly" for is a groundspeak-listed , which typically lasts no more than 15 minutes. They encouraged copycat events around the geocaching community at the same time, and these proved to be popular - , which Tatanka credited to Metro NY GC even though he did all the work himself.

Anyway, with the new mandate to not allow any commercial references of any kind in cache descriptions, I know that nationwide people have gotten a lot of pushback from groundspeak on mentioning the name "podcacher" in their descriptions. In groundspeak's eyes, this is an unacceptable commerical reference to a web site that accepts advertising and offers products for sale. So all references get stripped out (or the cache doesn't get listed, I suppose).

WHAT I THINK HAS HAPPENED HERE is that NY Admin saw your reference to a "podcast", didn't process or take the time to understand that this is totally different from "podcacher" and was trying to censor something that wasn't in your listing. And in the process confused the hell out of you, because only a small fraction of geocachers have ever even heard of podcacher, and that would include myself until relatively recently.

For those who don't know, fatfredfreak has included awesome podcasts to go along with each of his hides. In the first hide, there was even an MP3 player in the cache container with the audio file preloaded for people to listen to. It was also posted , for those of you interested in checking it out. There was another, equally awesome podcast that went along with the "proximity" cache that sparked this thread. A podcast which I have to assume... I'm the only person who has ever listened to it?

I myself thought these were some of the most creative and informative caches in the city, and clearly showed a lot of hard work. Was looking forward to more in the series.

It would really blow if this all came down to an Admin banning a cache because of a reference that wasn't being made, and to a potential hider that had (jutsifiably) no idea what the hullabaloo was all about...

[fatfredfreak]

I woke up this morning thinking to myself "You're being a child. You enjoy creating the podcasts, and creating the High series, so get over it."

Then I got a message that a NY volunteer still won't list my latest effort until I finish the podcast.

Wait...what?!?!

First...(s)he wouldn't publish because of the presence of a podcast (didn't want to associate with podcacher.com...ok) now they won't until it's complete.

To hell with this whole thing. These guys are idiot fascists who miss being the power of being president of their school's A/V or Chess clubs...mad with nerd power! So to hell with them!

If anyone would like a .pdf of the final cache (which will most-likely not be listed after my nasty reply to the volunteer) email me at fatfred@rocketmail.com, and I'll forward it to you as an attachment. No podcast on this one...I hadn't finished it yet, and doubt I will now.

Anyone who wants to lay claim to my High in Morningside Park, you can have it. I'll send you anything you need for it...I'm not going to fight with the Admin any longer over this one, but the podcast already exists. I'll probably replace my High in Central Park one -- but muggles keep thwarting my efforts thus far. I like that podcast, and Fireweenie and I worked hard on it, so I'll try to keep that one active.

I hereby sign off of this posting as I intend to sign-off on ALL future postings (both here and at geocaching.com):

NY Admin Sux

[Tatanka49]

Fat Fred Freak sure sounds like Fats277.

But on another note, his wanting to go out of state will be stopped becasue of the 'vacation cache' rule. Pofe in NJ can be tough and ODragon in eastern PA is no pushover on rules, either.

J

[addisonbr]

[addisonbr]

[Bonick0]

It's nice to hear that after all the troubles the cache finally got published.

[EastVillageFamily]

[Child Of Atom]

[EastVillageFamily]

[lekogm]

[addisonbr]

[Harry Dolphin]

Ah. There are several points on interest being raised.
Virtual waypoints do not affect proximity rules. Only the final for Five Star New York, for example, is subject to proximity rules. My guess is that there are sixteen caches in Central Park that are mystery/multi/offset or letterbox hybrid. A minimal number (that I know of) have multiple caches. (There are still some mystery caches that I have not solved...) Also four (?) virtuals left. Virtuals, virtual stages, and virtual starting points for mystery caches do not afect the proximity rule. Actual stages in a multi and final stages for multis and mystery caches do affect proximity. I can feel for fat fred freak on his problem. I have an idea of what he went up against.
The problem with revealing the final/intermediate for another cache has a long and involved history in geocaching. Keystone has some stories to tell about that. Some reviewers will work with you (or so I'm told). But, because of what happened, many are not going to get involved. I don't know what the answer to that problem is.
The time of vacation caches has passed. In the early days, they were encouraged. And there were a number in the city. Flowers from Tennessee actually lasted three years! African Skies not nearly that long. Seannie's Cache, unfortunately, is not in a particularly good location. Though it has been maintained a few times. I think it's a good site for a study in comparative archeology. I know that I dug out some interesting things whilst searching for it, including a buried card table.
As to the gentledolphin from New Jersey who hid a cache in Central Park... That does not qualify as a vacation cache. Said gentledolphin (accompanied by a gentlebear) have been geocaching on Manhattan for four years, and are probably among the top ten fnders of caches on Manhattan. And, it's only 37 miles from home. (Anyone else here find Dry Brdge?) NY Admin can check the stats and had no problems publishing that cache. Also, said gentlecritters have a few caches across the river in Hudson County. Not to mention their several trips to the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn to try to clear the bear's ten-mile list. (I realize that aspersions were not being cast upon them. This is merely an explanation as to why Manhattan qualifies as home turf.) NY Admin seems to be an easy reviewer to work with.
Reviewing and reviewers come with pevious problems ingrained. One needs to work with them, and accept that it can be difficult at times. Unfortunate, but it happens.

[gerkmax]

How about someone suggesting that the "no cache zone" around hidden stages be lowered to 100 meters?